Changes to Views, Triggers, and Automations Management Follow



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    Joe Caiati

    This new trigger re-ordering process is convoluted and so much slower. Very disappointing. 

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    Jonathan March

    @Joseph, try the "Select Position" option. It is lightning-fast when used with the filter at the top of that pop-up dialog -- at least 5x faster than the old method for us with our 200 or so triggers.

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    Peter A. Siri

    Great Article about the changes. This really surprised my users today when we all logged in and saw the change. It would be great to get this notice in email about 5 days before the change so we could all be prepared. I actually really like the changes to the triggers.


    I would love to have the ticket numbers in the full list of "views" for my users. I can see this would take a lot of admin overhead, but would be so helpful. 

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    Jonathan March (Edited )


    As just mentioned in my previous response, IMO the "select position" dialog is very nice, will save a lot of time. But to emphasize, when one has a lot of triggers, it only works well if you make use of the filter at the top of the dialog.

    A few non-urgent suggestions:

    "Date last used" would be extremely useful for locating dead items. (7 days doesn't come close to sufficing -- past year would be more like it, given the existence of infrequent edge cases.)

    It would be great to be able to sort filtered results, rather than, as apparently now, only unfiltered results.

    Similarly, I can't see any good reason not to support the select-position command on an item in a filtered list; which would greatly speed locating a newly created trigger and then positioning it as desired.

    In the same vein, it would be very useful to have an option to "Clone in place" or "Clone to next position", because 99% of the time, whether it's a trigger or a view, that's whither I end up repositioning the cloned and edited item. 

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    Joe Caiati

    There should be an option for us to show ALL triggers and views on one page. Please make this change. 

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    Corinne Walker

    Yes I agree on this one!

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    Erin Boyle

    Joseph & Corinne - can you tell me a bit more about why having them all on one page is important? I'd love to hear what use cases we're not addressing effectively for you.

    Peter - so pleased you like the improvements! Noted on the advanced warning. I made the call to skip it this time since this is basically the same as the new macros pages that went out a couple months ago, but we'll keep this in mind for next time.

    Can you tell me a little bit more about what counts you'd like to see in the admin interface and why?

    Jonathan - glad you're still liking these improvements! We have started some work to start tracking usage over the last 30 days, and we're hoping to get that in. The last used date is something we're not tracking at all right now, but we can investigate what that would take to add.

    On sorting the filtered results, we were making an assumption that the relevance of the results mattered more, but if enough people would like to sort within the search context, it's definitely something we can change.

    And finally, on the ability to select position when the list is filtered, we've been concerned that the experience could be confusing, but that is probably more true for the move to top / move to bottom options. We'll consider allowing the "select position" since context is less important there.

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    Jonathan March

    Thanks, Erin!

    > On sorting the filtered results, we were making an assumption that the relevance of the results mattered more.

    That's seems like a reasonable default, but the extra step can be useful too. For example, we have 30 or so very similar triggers, easily filtered. Next step: which of these are being used and which are not?

    > We'll consider allowing the "select position" since context is less important there.

    Our most common workflow which repositions triggers is: Filter to find the trigger that I want to clone. Clone/edit/save. Filter again to find the new trigger (btw, it would be nice if the filter were still in effect at that point, which would usually eliminate this step). Move it into position, most likely right near the original trigger.

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    Peter A. Siri

     Hi Erin, 


    Pleasure to meet your acquaintance. Love the quick response! We don't use macro's that much so the new changes were quite a shock for my 70 agents who could all the sudden click on the name of the view. IMHO it might be better to have a "view details" view in the "..." drop down on the right and let people click on the actual view. (I don't actually like showing my Agents the exact rules even). 

    When you initially click on "views" you can see how many tickets are in each view. We manage many views a crossed 4 soon to be 5 brands and we love to see how many tickets are in each view. Right now I can only see these on the first 14 views in the list.  it would be awesome to see this in the full view list.

    One other issue with views is that on a mobile device my people can only see the first 14 views and not see anymore. That's rendered the mobile devices useless for many of my users. 

    I really like Zendesk and appreciate you guys being forward thinking in your design and making constant improvements. 


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    Corinne Walker

    Yes I completely agree with Peter here. I have to manage nearly 400 agents and have been training them to click on their additional Views by title to see their work queue (just like they would if it were one of the first 12-14 listed). Why would they all of a sudden have to change their behavior now? 

    Regarding no pagination - I like being able to see all of my triggers on 1 page and by using the CTRL+F function, I can quickly scan for triggers that I need while still visibly comparing them to the rest of the list. 


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    Kyle Handley

    +1 to Corinne's use case. Perhaps the ability to jump back to the old view would be useful for/in some cases. I see the new view improvements as good all around. 

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    Erin Boyle

    @Peter - thanks for the clarification! Yeah, I hadn't considered how big of a change this would be for agents... I may have underestimated their use of the views admin page. Makes total sense.

    As far as the view counts are concerned, I'm afraid we won't be able to implement that. Displaying view counts is actually pretty expensive from a performance perspective, and limiting how many we display at once is necessary to keep you all up and running smoothly. That being said, we do have plans to change the agent experience in the future to more easily access their views (maybe even including letting them choose which views to see by default), and I'm hoping this is where we'll be able to make the biggest impact to your workflow.

    @Corinne + @Kyle - ahh, this use case makes sense to me. So basically you're trying to see the surrounding workflow of a particular trigger.

    There is a workaround you can use if you absolutely need to do this for now, although I don't recommend you do it all the time (again, we're trying to make this system speedy for you!). In the URL, you may notice some query parameters added at the end:


    That per_page parameter controls how many triggers will be loaded onto the page. You can increase that number for those times you need to see everything (or a bit more) on one page. Hope this helps!

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    Joel Hellman

    Like the new pages! Fantastic to see the usage right away for triggers and automations. I immediately discovered an automation that needed some TLC. 

    > We'll consider allowing the "select position" since context is less important there.

    I'll add my vote to this. I have a similar flow like Jonathan reported. Searching makes extra sense when you have more than 100 triggers and multiple pages, and it's pretty awkward you can't select the position when you had found what you where looking for. 

    > In the same vein, it would be very useful to have an option to "Clone in place" or "Clone to next position", because 99% of the time, whether it's a trigger or a view, that's whither I end up re-positioning the cloned and edited item. 

    This has been brought up before, and would make an awesome feature, since in my case, 90% of the times I clone rules, I want to put the new rule next to the cloned one. 


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    Joel Hellman

    A couple of feature requests of mine.. (I'm sure they have been brought up before)

    Rules that keep their position on deactivation

    Would be awesome if rules/views that are deactivated could retain their position (it could be an option too, like cloning 'next to'). Position is key in automations and triggers, after all. 

    At the moment, when a rule is deactivated, it loses all memory of where it used to be.

    When I reactivate a rule I deactivated, I sometimes find - often too late - that I might not have restored it at the old position, after all. 


    The fact that rules doesn't remember their position, even for a short while, always make me nervous when I change my business rules. 


    Create rules in a deactivated/passive state (avoid going live right away)

    Right now I race to move a newly created or reactivated rule into position, since it's always positioned last, and already active. If I'm unlucky, I have a new ticket flow where I use multiple triggers and rules. 

    Being able to create new rules and views that starts out in a deactivated/passive state (I suppose a new state might be needed), and then just being able to toggle their activation state (when I have double checked everything), would make my admin job easier, and less stressful and error-prone. 

    This would make most sense to me, if the rules/views remembered their position while not active, since moving (multiple) rules into the (correct) position can take a while, and maybe some contemplation.

    By the way, if a rule could remember it's relative position even while not active - and if we could also clone a rule next to it's source - it would make perfect sense to me that the newly cloned rule/view started out in a non-active mode.


    Moving a group of triggers, views or automations

    The ability to bulk activate/deactivate/delete macros that was just added is super useful, thanks for that!

    It would also help a lot if I could select and move multiple rules/views (especially triggers) into a new position. 

    As my triggers, automations and views grows, I end up putting those that are similar or related together. Then when I make a new series of triggers, or realize something is firing in the wrong order in my existing triggers, I often need to move a group of related triggers. 

    Currently, if I'm unlucky and my set of triggers span two pages, it's awkward, since the reorder action only works on the current page.

    Unrelated to the two-page span reordering problem, I find it's easy that I unintentional change the relative order when I move a group of triggers, which can have consequences that are sometimes hard to see right away. 

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    Jonathan March

    @Erin, I really like all three of Joel's suggestions. They would make it possible to do maintenance and experimentation on triggers much more robustly.

    I think that this has been raised before, but for "moving a group" -- if ZD allowed triggers to be organized hierarchically, then an entire section could be moved together. As is, I have groups of similar triggers preceded by a dummy trigger whose name is something like "====== TICKET CREATION AND CLASSIFICATION" or "======== COMMENTS".


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    Tamer Sobh

    "On the old view list page, clicking on a view's name would take you do the view itself. In the new list page, clicking directly on a view will take you to the view's edit page. To navigate to the view itself, click the "Open" button that appears on hover."

    This is not good. In old view I can click ctrl+view name/s. This will open a new tab with the view itself. So I can view many views on many tabs all at once.


    With this new view list I can't see the view itself. Instead I see the edit!! Who would want to this?!


    You already have a view limitation of only showing 8 views at the same time. OK fine, so we used to click on views to sees them! Not to edit them. So now we can't. This is disappointing. 


    (VOTE UP)


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    Joel Hellman

    When I'm moving a trigger with the reorder page feature, I miss being able to use my mouse scroll wheel and my keyboard (page up/page down/home/end). 

    Right now, I grab the row's handle, position my mouse at the top of my browser, and then patiently wait while my browser is scrolling. But before, I could grab the row's handle, and quickly jump up and down or to the top of the page with my keyboard, or scroll up just a bit, using my mouse scroll wheel.

    Admittedly, I can use the new select position feature to re-position the row, but I miss this when using the reordering feature. 

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    Sebastiaan Wijchers

    Seems like a good step forward! Large amount of triggers were difficult to manage and reorder.

    I'm going to do quite some work with our triggers next week, so I'll probably post some feedback later. Like always, I do love Joel's feedback!

    Grouping triggers

    One thing I really would like to see are 'groups'/'categories' like you can add to macro's (or views when you're using the Lovely Views app), by giving a title like:

    Category::Trigger name

    Unicode icons

    Something else would be persistent saving for unicode icons. I like to add an envelope (✉) to trigger that send out an e-mail, or when assigning to an agent (👤), or when setting a form (📋), etc.

    Once in a while they get replaced by question marks.


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    Joel Hellman

    I love the feedback about icons! Icons (pictures) adds a lot of information to a context, with a minimum of space - especially useful seeing as the new pages that shows a bit more meta data than before (like usage/last modified), leaves a bit less space than before, if we don't want our names to wrap. 

    If the icons can get replaced during updates however, it seems a fix first would be necessary.

    But if can be fixed, I will start doing this right away. A list best icons would be good at that point :P

    The new admin pages are already looking good, and this might be feedback far in the future, but what if the system helped you by looking at the actions and automatically adding an email icon for triggers that had the action 'notify requester', or change assignee, for example like my fictional page below

    Purely inspirational - I don't have this in my Zendesk :)

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    Jennifer Robichaux

    I have to admit, I was a bit surprised to see the changes roll out. I was mid-process of adding some new triggers, when a screen refresh revealed the changes.

    My gut response was - this makes it really hard to work with my ~250 triggers. It was less than intuitive to re position the new triggers I had cloned (which appeared at the bottom of the third page, but needed to move to the first page). Although I did work it out and can see how the addition of "Select Position" is meant to speed up the process of positioning. The challenge is that, without seeing the full list of triggers, it's hard to figure out where the new trigger should be placed. 

    As others have mentioned - the position of the trigger is important.

    Fortunately, the work around to customize how many triggers are in view has been really helpful.

    To get to the heart of our organizational challenges - We have many groupings of triggers. Each group needs to be positioned in relation to the other groups, then the triggers within the group typically require a specific order. I've used a work around to date to organize these groups - having a dummy trigger that acts as a header. The recent changes just make the work around a little harder to manage. 

    I agree with a lot of the suggestions previously stated:

    "Clone in place" or "Clone to next position" (@Jonathan)

    9/10 times, when we add a new trigger, it's a variation on an existing one and will need to be placed in close proximity to the original. This would cut out the "Select Position" step.

    Create rules in a deactivated/passive state (avoid going live right away) (@Joel)

    We often need to add a half dozen new triggers together. They require specific positioning, and must all be present to work together properly. Being able to stage a number of new triggers would be very helpful and ensure that new triggers fire only when we're ready.

    Moving a group of triggers (@Joel)

    Our triggers are all grouped. If one group needs to be moved around another, it's time consuming. Leading into the next idea, there needs to be a better way to manager groups of similar/related triggers.

    Grouping triggers (@Sebastiaan)

    Couldn't agree more! This is our biggest pain point with triggers. We have dozens of groups and the order of those groups is critical. It would be very handy to be able to move groups seamlessly around each other. Then to reorder or work within triggers of a single group. This would take our list of 100 per page to under a dozen in most cases.


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    Martin Lambertz

    +1 for all triggers on one page. 

    I don't understand, why a feature like this is rolled out without giving your customers the chance to roll back. For us this is really annoying and even with the mentioned workaround the new triggers list looks creapy. Our triggers have quite long names to be able to immediately see what they are doing. Now each triggers needs two lines. 



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    Simon Stitz

    I like the added functionality like the option to sort by usage, but I also agree to the before mentioned suggestions, especially

    "All triggers on one page"


    "Keep position after deactivation".

    +1 to missing optimizations regarding the views list. Having to navigate to the "Open" button feels like a regression. With the already limited list for the agents, the logical first choice seems to be to display the content of the view. Only in much fewer cases you'll actually want to edit the view.

    And a huge +1 to Martin's feedback about the changed size of the columns. I don't understand why there is so much blank space and no option to resize the columns!

    We also have many triggers with very similar names that could be easily differentiated by their length. Often we simply add something like "+add tag" or "+solve" to otherwise identically named triggers. These are now all buried in the second line. 

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    Paul Arlinghaus (Edited )

    Did this change also remove the ability as a non-admin agent to have a read-only view of triggers, automations and macros?  I used to be able to do that by going directly to URL https://<mycompany>  But that no longer works.

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    Jenny Childs

    As you can no longer click on the view to be taken to it and you need to hover and click the open button, I now no longer have the ability to right click on a view and open it in a new tab.

    Due to the limited number of views you can have appearing in the views pane this was useful when I had a large number of views I needed to check.

    This now takes multiple clicks as I have to keep going back to the views admin page which defaults to "all shared views" so I also have to change this back to personal views. 

    Are there any plans to allow this functionality again?


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    Charlie Smith

    Would be really good to see an ability to group triggers together according to brand in the enterprise version of Zendesk. Instead we're having to set up null triggers to enable us to separate each set of triggers. Loving the changes so far though.

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    Martin Lambertz

    Suddenly all trigger have the same "last udpate" time stamp. I guess this happened after a new trigger was created and moved within the trigger list. This is really annoying as i can't find out who and when a trigger was changed or i have to scroll through the audit log until i find the needed info - which is also super annoying. :-/ 

    Can this please be fixed? 

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    Joel Hellman

    This happened to us as well. 

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    Jonathan March

    When I played with the new Trigger UI last week, I noticed that all ours were 29 August or later, presumably the date of some database update by ZD? But adding and moving new triggers subsequently seemed well behaved (only the affected trigger was re-dated), making it seem that this was only a one time loss of useful history (if, indeed, it was ever available?), i.e. could be worse!

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    Erin Boyle

    Believe it or not, this has always been the case for triggers. Reordering triggers does actually update each trigger's position, and that hasn't changed with this UI update. It's definitely more noticeable now, though, given we surface that information right up front!

    That being said, the change should actually limit the affected triggers to the span of triggers that was changed. In other words, if you move something from position 5 to position 10, only the trigger in those in-between positions will have their "last updated date" updated.


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    Jennifer Robichaux

    A quick thought on that last comment @Erin.

    Adding a new trigger always places it at the end of the list. So, if I move a trigger from place 250 to 50, then all those triggers in between are updated. 

    Granted, we currently aren't using the data around when the trigger was last updated, but for those that are using this data - adding new triggers is sure to throw off the data.

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